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SPI reducer with Martin Senour Tec base?

 
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'68 Coronet R/T



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Paulden, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: SPI reducer with Martin Senour Tec base? Reply with quote

Can Martin Senour (Napa) Tec-base be reduced with SPI or does it require its own?

BTW, I tried finding out on my own but . . .

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RodMan



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 215
Location: South Daytona, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Senour is Sherwin Williams relabled. I remember reading some post recently that S&W can be cut with regular reducer now. If that's the case then the same should be true of the Martin. To be sure you may want to look up their tech recomendations on-line.
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Barryk



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 3628
Location: Blairsville to Canton, Ga

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last year or so, S&W has been telling shops to use Urethane reducer in the 7000 base unless its a metallic.
They say the reason is to help with metallic control, I would think a shot of activator would do a lot better and be a lot cheaper.

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crashtech



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1338
Location: Southern Idaho

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still haven't been told that. I'd like to know just what is in the basecoat stabilizer. It does seem to help metallics, so if the color is a metallic, especially a light colored one, I would say use the Martin Senour stabilizer because metallic control is marginal with this paint.

On a solid color, use SPI reducer with 1 up to 2oz per quart of activator. Yes, 2oz.:

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'68 Coronet R/T



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Paulden, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't able to find much information on their website. Actually I came away with more questions.
1. They show TRS2 or BCS2 and provide zero information on what either of them is.
2. They call them both "stabilizers" in one place and then TRS Solvents in another.
3. They call for the addition of TH704 with the BCS but not with the TRS.

I guess to be safe I will just use their stuff - whatever it might be.

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crashtech



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1338
Location: Southern Idaho

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:
I wasn't able to find much information on their website. Actually I came away with more questions.
1. They show TRS2 or BCS2 and provide zero information on what either of them is.
2. They call them both "stabilizers" in one place and then TRS Solvents in another.
3. They call for the addition of TH704 with the BCS but not with the TRS.

I guess to be safe I will just use their stuff - whatever it might be.


BCS indicates plain stabilizer, and TRS is HAPS free stabilizer with some isocyanate added. With BCS you can use 2oz. per qt. activator, with TRS you use just 1oz.

Are you shooting solid or metallic?
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'68 Coronet R/T



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Paulden, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid yellow.
When you say activator are you referring to the TH704?
Also, when you say stabilizer is this like a base maker that has to be added to complete the product?

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Jim C



Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 2788
Location: new jersey

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm going to guess you got a price on rm for yellow and you nearly fell over!! Laughing

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'68 Coronet R/T



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Paulden, Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim C wrote:
i'm going to guess you got a price on rm for yellow and you nearly fell over!! Laughing


He he he you got that right. $147 a quart. Shocked

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crashtech



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1338
Location: Southern Idaho

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:
Solid yellow.
When you say activator are you referring to the TH704?

Yes, but that product is not specific to the basecoat. It is the activator for their premium collision repair clear, so in your case, for example if you are using Universal Clear, you would substitute SPI activator in place of the TH704.

Quote:
Also, when you say stabilizer is this like a base maker that has to be added to complete the product?

Yes and no, that is the $64 question. It seems to be an additive that helps with metallic control, for instance the Sherwin rep (Sherwin and M-S are the same, OK) tells me to put the stabilizer into Dimension base if there are issues with metallic control, but Dimension base is usually reduced with plain reducer. So it's obvious that there isn't anything in there that is incompatible with other bases, in fact I have used stabilizer to reduce SPI intercoat when it is to be used as a blending agent intermixed with basecoat.

Conversely, I have used SPI reducer in U7000 base (the product analogous to Tec-Base) with no adverse effects at all, at least to my limited ability to test (adhesion, through cure, gloss retention), though when I tried plain reducer in a high metallic it resulted in a redo due to nasty mottling.

If it was me spraying yellow, I would first buy a small amount of the M-S (if that is your choice) and do a coverage check with it. If it takes too much to cover, you are not saving money anyhow. If it turns out to have good coverage, I would use SPI reducer and 2oz. per quart UC activator.
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Jim C



Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 2788
Location: new jersey

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

depending on the formula, yellow can be a big deal for coverage. some of the bright ones need a pure white base to go over first as they never completely hide anything or cover. yellow is always one of the most expensive colors and the coverage can be poor. most of the oem formulas in rm are 3 coats for yellows. i have shot some real bright formulas (non oem) that were like a candy and never covered. coverage is definaltely something you want to look into when picking your paint line. a deal ain't always a deal if you know what i mean.

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'68 Coronet R/T



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Paulden, Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear what you are saying about coverage and I have explained that to the customer hoping to get him to at least buy the PPG but parting with the extra money is the problem.
I even offered to sell him my SPI red to do his car but he wants a two tone and the only place to cut prices is on the paint itself.
My plan is to strip it, epoxy and then 2k Buff, paint it all white and then mask and shoot the yellow. I am hoping the buff under the white will help with the yellow coverage.

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Barryk



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 3628
Location: Blairsville to Canton, Ga

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's obvious that there isn't anything in there that is incompatible with other bases, in fact I have used stabilizer to reduce SPI intercoat when it is to be used as a blending agent intermixed with base-coat.
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Crash that was pretty good, I would almost assume from what you are saying is a reduced and cheap-ed out 2020 intercoat may be the same thing. Hey not that I would know, just a 2 cent opinion.

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